To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. He realized how often, and how far, he strayed from God's way of life. Christ says, Luke 21:34-35 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. This was obviously later in his life and reign. Report, September 02 2013 You had to go up quite a bit. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. You had only black and white television if you had television. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. Where are they from? Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! We are getting toward the end of King David's life. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. In 1 Samuel 10, Saul first tries to kill David by straight up pinning him to the wall with his spear, but David dodges twice. God is warning here that sin has consequences. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. The soul who sins shall die. And the king said, "I will give them." Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. Another thing that God said to do was not done. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. We would like to make a covenant with you.". They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. The Israelites had promised not to It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." So they performed all that the king commanded. A snare is a trap. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. This does not make any sense. David did not come to this with any regal neutrality in the least. He was distracted. 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a But it does not say so here in so many words. Saul killed a lot of people. Then we have verses 34 through 36. And David sought the face of the Lord. So, he spared Agag, and he spared a lot of the good stuff. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. If what happened against Gibeon occurred during Saul's reign, even if it was in the latter half, it would mean it was at least (if we are in the last decade of King David's reign) that the massacre of Gibeonites occurred 40 or 50 years earlier. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. That is basically how it was. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. He enslaved them all, and made them wood cutters and menial laborers at the Tabernacle. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Why did Herod like to listen to John the Baptist, who criticized Herods lifestyle? Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the L ORD. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. His anger at the 2Samuel 21:1, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.. The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. Vote Up He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). 0 responses They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. However, this chapter drops a few hints about it. Why were genealogies so important to Israel? I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. The stories of such people like Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, and on through the chapter give us hope that like them we can overcome and be assured of entering the Kingdom of God. Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. In verse 7 we see the only thing in the entire situation that was any good at all. Web11 Then the king sent for the priest Ahimelek son of Ahitub and all the men of his family, who were the priests at Nob, and they all came to the king. There was justice that was going to take place. Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. How many wars were fought? Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Think of it as if it were today. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. But the consequences of their sinswhat it means to us; what happened because of their sinstill affects us today. The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. BATTLE AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY or who shall stand in his holy place? Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev Was John the Baptist conceived via an immaculate conception? The consequences are not the guilt. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. We do not know when it happened. ", So David went out and said, "There are some things that have needed to be done. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. Of course, a part of it is being able to look at ourselves and see how dirty, nasty, and rotten we are, and saying, "There is no way that anybody could live in this world without sin; even God's beloved Son.". Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. You do not know. They did not inquire. This was a long time ago. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. DECEPTION AND COST . The Gibeonites were a very shrewd bunch of people. Community answers are sorted based on votes. It does not seem so. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. It cut us off from God. This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. WebThe biblical writer confirms this charge by stating that Saul tried to annihilate [ nkah, to inflict a dead blow] them (2 Sam. They are two separate things. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. However, the Gibeonites did. He just weakly said, "Oh okay, whatever you want. It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! lorraine goode. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. But, he did not. Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. Based on what he knew, and what was available in God's law, David should have been much more judicious. But, you would think that after two years you would get the idea that this was not breaking. Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. God required atonement to be made. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. We had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar. Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. He attempted the genocide of God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. In fact, look down to verse 15, II Samuel 21:15-17 When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint. I also want you to see how warlike Saul was. He was thinking about a lot of other things. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a Even their empty wine skins were completely dried up and cracked. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. What did David do to end the famine caused by Saul breaking a treaty with the Gibeonites? There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. He apparently killed The time had passed. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. Share Report, August 29 2022 God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. You are getting later and later in David's life here. However, there was not. God's correction may come a After that, they had their problems at Ai, and figured out that Achan was responsible for that. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. A brief, but important, reference to the Gibeonites can also be found in 2 Samuel 21:1-14. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Was obviously later in his life and reign generation is formed we read of the truth the. To be done so they were pagan cultures and when did saul attack the gibeonites were stuck the note and delusion... 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