mercer county, pa public records; facts about the roman . As a novice here, I have a question: Why was Gamaliel not as tolerant with Jesus as he was with Paul? And Paul only said it here, one time, in the middle of a personal letter. Pharisee ruled that executions created a bloody Sanhedrin and if you had more than one a year, it was considered a bloody Sanhedrin. God led Paul to write what what was necessary to be included in scripture, but at the same time God does not use men as mindless puppets, but he uses our personalities, ideas, and who we are to accomplish what he wants. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. The leaders of the various house churches, Apollos by name, perhaps Chloes household is another church. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. Paul was in Jerusalem from the age of 3 (under Gamaliel), so to assume he already knew how to WRITE Greek would be fallacious.. What does Josephus say about Gamaliel? Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. To be more like Jesus is what some strive except for me Ive already arrived Im the perfect model since the road to Damascus What were Pauls sins? That is why there was no mention of Believe and be saved The New Covenant was not even inaugurated until the Last Passover Supper and the 2 Commandments are clearly described in 1st John. Per Euseibus the first 13 bishops the Jerusalem church were Pharisee. A scribe would be among the most highly educated in Judaism, and since at the feet of Gamaliel implies a mentoring relationship, it seems to me that a near-equivalent would be a serious specialized Masters Program, if not a PhD. Its all a part of Gods perfect timing and plan. He is also quick to associate with gentiles, so he does not have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well. Once you have taken the covenant you are native born. You are unable to understand this since you assume all Christians believe wrongly about Jesus and Paul. Wow, theyre dropping like flies. One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. The Zealots were against the Political oppressors, the Sadducees were complacent and the Pharasees were die hard conservatives that had a history of killing over the strict preservation of the law (Polhill 27-28). (Paul insisted that all the workers show respect for him by addressing him as Boss Paul.) Paul called the team of painters together and told them: Boys, we need to paint this garage and house. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Both Yeshua and Pauls ministries are simply another sect of Judaism. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. I say that Paul became more like a Hillelite and was largely impacted by Gamaliels theology because there are a few instances noted in the Bible where Pauls beliefs line up very closely with Gamaliels. Yet Jesus is the object of worship, turned into a false god believed to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it! Its nice and tidy to say I just accept what the Bible says, but whose interpretation? Shaul and Yehusa were both Jews who practiced Judaism, worshiped in synagogues, at the temple and were part of Jewish society and culture. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a short time. Some of its magic, some its tragic, but Ive had a good life along the way. -Jimmy Buffett. section 8 rentals in oak grove ms 3) the apostle Paul prides himself on having sat at the feet of Gamaliel. If you continue to post long rambling and inaccurate responses I will ban you from the site. (John 10:33) This is still the issue with many Jews, God simply cannot become fully Incarnate. brought up . Are the lines differentiating Gamaliel/Hillel from Shammaite Pharisees sufficiently filled out by robust bodies of exhaustive casuistry? Educated under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the most influential rabbis in judaism. I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. Log in. Yet even here, not even Paul, not even once, ever said that All Scripture is EQUAL in authority, priority, and importance. Who was the famous Jewish teacher under whom St. Paul studied? I have come to save the day! Either way, by Acts logic every Christian should reject false doctrines but if a new teacher appears and preaches about God the One God, and is called a Prophet, if his mission is as wildly successful, sans the forced conversions Christianity depended on, IS FORBIDDEN at that, obviously Christians are the new Pharisees for rejecting and slandering Prophet Mohammed (saw) and adhering to oral traditions of their forefathers. I am not sure we can know, but Aramaic seems likely, although Scripture would be studied in Hebrew. b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. Then the Paulist Establishment church wont persecute me, but the other Jesus People will know that Im still keeping the faith and not inhaling., What I really need is a short catchy slogan to let my fellow hippies know what is expected of them in the Establishment Church now in 1973, regarding the issue of Paul the Pharisees sins. Dear Wilson, Yes there are ! The Twelve Apostles were absolutely NOT sent out right away after being appointed Apostles, according to Mark chapters 3 through 6, and Luke chapters 6 through 9. Study sets, textbooks, questions. He came so we can turn from darkness And into His glorious light. This is not the sort of education most people would even want, so it is not really a college degree. Wrong. Therefore, what Saul was taught was not based off of Gods truth. Gymnasiums were built for these people who participated in game in which they engaged in sports naked. Gravity. You can hover over the pic and it will say that (or at least it did for me in Firefox). Ill do it then. This passion is evident in his active persecution of those he saw as going against what the Torah taught about the Messiah. One hint is the resistance to Pauline Christianity by both Second Temple Judaism and more conservative Jewish Christians like James.Most scholars of the period talk about early Judaisms, plural, since there was in fact a range of practice and belief in the first century. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. Obviously, the New Testament Scriptures were not written when Jesus was walking the earth. The term To sit at the feet of a Rav is a term in Judaism for a man (13-20) to know the first five books and the Oral law by memory. He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view (Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him!). Paul states hes a Pharisee Acts 23:6 Paul States he kept Torah, the law through out his life Acts 25:7-8 and 28:17, Paul circumcises Timothy after the town rebukes Timothy for going into ministry uncircumcised (Acts 16:1-3) Paul attends synogogue faithfully (acts 17:1-2) Paul adhering to Passover (acts 18:21-22 and 1 Cor. God has not changed, and neither has the text of The Bible. Only after the house is finished and the paint is dry can we go and paint the garage.. Why are you waiting, be of those who bow to Gods Will if you know that the Bible has lies in it and is corrupt, you must believe that a true religion exists in the world and isnt a secluded secret for the few who know! I have been looking and wanted to know about the Gamaliel , because in Nepal we have competition for the ranking and Im bit aware of this and I have burden for our people in Nepal not go this way and I want to teach as a teacher to be out from this kinds of Gamaliel position, who just want to be in the meeting not taking burden of their neighbor who need Jesus than taking a position in the Gamaliel meetings. His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). Its called Islam and it is True Religion and the fastest growing religion on earth because people are realizing that Christianity is built on a foundation of lies and the religion of the Nazarenes and Ebionites is preserved in Islam. I would think that he would include that in his self-description as the chief of sinners. Romans 10:4 states For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Why ignore the words of our Lord God Jesus Christ, Son of Yahweh the Most High God of Israel, who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets? The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. Second, Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, so we can get an approximate early date for Pauls education. I know from the Scriptures that Paul Worship is wrong, but the entire Church Establishment says its right. .2) Paul lying to the Ephesian elders saying he was compelled by the Spirit going to Jerusalem, when in truth he was clearly disobeying God. We are painters, and we paint. Exactly what Issa p al Masih did about 500 years earlier! Why not listen to Jesus, and His words written down and passed on by HIS faithful eyewitnesses, the Apostles HE personally appointed, and personally trained for over 3 years, Matthew and John? No one. Those educational credentials allowed Paul to preach in the synagogues wherever he traveled (see Acts 17:2 ). 1. The concept of a rabbi was extremely new in Paul's time, and he probably didn't study under one. But is it correct to characterize Paul as an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, namely, that Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him. I trust that no one is offended and that as a result of this comment, we might get closer to Him, The Truth. Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. Eryk, have you ever heard of dual citizenship? This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. I have regularly recommended you start your own blog and have these sorts of discussions there. Yes, this subject can get indepth, but I think it is better myself to keep it simple, and what we can know, from Scripture itself. Paul = "little". (Mark was intimately connected with Peter since the beginning of the Church, and he acted as scribe for Peter and other Apostles who were illiterate at in their younger years. It is a Rembrandt. When and where did they first meet. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. Law. (Matthew 27:45). Who am I to challenge hundreds years of false man-made tradition, like Jesus, Martin Luther, Columbus, Copernicus and Galileo? . How likely is it that the acknowledged leaders of the church today could come to such unanimous theological agreement? According to Josephus (Life 38.190-191), Gamaliel belonged to "a highly respected family"; there is no good reason to reject the early Jewish tradition that he was the grandson (or perhaps . But after Paul went solo without Barnabas [Acts 15] I see no record that Paul ever appointed any elders in any church anywhere. 1:3 ; 1:11-12, etc.). therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. This message was not the Gospel. This post is about how God continued to prepare Paul for his mission through his studies at the feet of Gamaliel.. Gamaliel. Gamaliel, as it appears, did most toward establish-. QUOTE The Bible is none other than the voice of Him that sitteth upon the throne! What was his last name? ), STEP 2) Paul said; Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners- of whom I am the worst. [1 Timothy 1:15] (Response- Sin is alwasy specific. On page 38 Polhil writes, Paul certainly showed more the attitude of the zealots than of Gamaliel. Polhil also mentions in Phillipians 3:5-6, Paul refers to his persecuting in close connection with his zeal for the law. Polhil then mentions that a modern Zionist would have a yearning for the independence of the nation and the restoration of the glory of the temple by the Messiah. After reading our sections it seems to me that although Paul studied under Gamaliel, his actions resembled more closely to the Shammaite party. This is getting boring. I am not at all removing Paul (or Jesus) from the culture of the Second Temple period, but I certainly more aware of what was happening in the first century that you appear to be. Since Paul clearly gives his yeshiva and his lineage, it shows he wasnt a Christian before and after Damascus. Lets see. One possibility is that Paul was not of the Hillel form of Pharasism, but rather the more conservative Shammaite party. Something I would like to believe, though! Well considering I am infact Jewish I dont need your advice on what I should read.. Posting links about Judaism doesnt correlate that you actually understand Judaism. Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor Im following Jesus. He studied under Gamaliel. This status gave him special privileges, and in some cases saved him from abuse (Acts 22:25-29). All Jews were Hellenized to some extent, perhaps Paul made more use of Hellenisitic categories after the Damascus Road, but as a citizen of Tarsus it is impossible for him to be completely and solely Jewish in his thinking. That is OK, if it is not handy then I can look it up myself. Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . Jesus Leadership Training, The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World. I really will Stand up, stand up for Jesus, and wave his banner high- just not right now in 1973. Is it possible that Paul did conceive of certain individual missions against Christians as consistent with a rendering of mercy, that is, mercy to the stability of cultural Judaism rather than mercy to minority Jews (i.e., Christians)? [Matthew, John, Revelation, 2 Peter NIV], Jesus is The Way to God The real Jesus of the real Apostles But false teachers come and pervert Gods Word With twists and turns and jostles, My sheep listen to my voice Jesus said for us all to hear I know them, and they follow me He doesnt run when a wolf appears, He calls his own sheep by name Its not the witchcraft of a distant stranger Not just repeating the magic words And then thinking you are out of danger, Our Father in Heaven wants to talk to you He can hear you loud and clear And He sent His Son Jesus to inhabit the earth So that all who want God can draw near, Real prayer is a conversation At least thats what God wants it to be We talk in the garden in the cool of the day When we are part of His family, Only Jesus never disobeyed God Hes the only immaculate conception The Holy Spirit comes in His Name Dont listen to the voice of deception, If a false apostle preaches I became your father, imitate me He doesnt speak the words of God Its just Boss Paul the Pharisee, And if a heretic now claims to be The Churchs universal pastor His words should be ignored They lead to nothing but disaster, Jesus did not just teach The Way He IS The Way, my friend Repeating the mantra of Marypaulhammad Is nothing but a dead end, Bibliography all quotes in quotation marks are the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John chapter 10. Paul was actually heeding the words of his teacher Gamaliel, who had said to guard against being "found fighters actually against God" by rejecting his pharisaical life and becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. I will punt the description of the Shammites back to Wright, I have read extensively on the topic, but the characterization he gives in *What Saint Paul Really Thought* is a bit more than I think the evidence can bear. Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? We cannot work on assumption that Paul was different to what the book of Acts says. I know! The title of Adolf Hitler as the leader of the German Nazis, author of Mein Kamph. Do you have a Biblical basis for your response? Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Pauls education. But Jesus said, do not take the best seats (Luke 14:7-11), and to be like a child (Luke 18:15-17). You should have hired a PR firm to promote your name and make if famous. You seem to parrot some of his words in your replies. Im sorry to shatter your confirmation bias but YEshua nor Paul were Christians. ), STEP 1) Paul said; I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man. [1 Timothy 1:13] (Response- Those were Sauls sins, before Jesus called him. Here however it plainly is not. How can I make them understand that they should deal with Paul Worship the same way that I deal with smoking weed? He was raised in a Jewish society and home because everyone in the entire New Testament are Jews (or converts) who followed Torah. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. Pauls athletic references good point Emily. That is an issue and is creating confusion regarding the Brit Chadashah (Renewed Testament). To think that all Jewish people were completely unified is to share the same fantasy Christians have about the early church. Perhaps on the basis of a preserved tradition that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen. Like Brad Young, he is deeply influenced by David Flusser but unlike Flusser and Young, he is less in touch with mainstream Jewish scholarship. No, I DONT want Paul to act like a Pope controlling all aspects of the church from a distance yet reading Pauls 2 letters to the church, it is clear to me this is exactly what he was doing. unless some else takes credit for writing these words. Not to say that Paul completely left his Jewish heritage (thats a separate blog) and the almost violent passion with which he held onto them (see Galatians 5:12). [Acts 20:31 vs Acts 19:8-10], .4) Paul abandoning the Church in Corinth after a year and a half for no obvious reason, and going off on another long trip, mostly on his own, without appointing anyone else in Corinth as overseer, or giving anyone else any specific authority in the Church in Corinth. I am not sure God as incarnate is the issue, that is certainly not what is preached in Acts 2-3. And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. Take a piece of scripture and make nutty doctrines/traditions out of them.
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